Curse

Razz L Dazzle · Sep 23, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Boon prots in competitive play,.. rite...

Captain Robo · Sep 23, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I have not gvg'd a few months, due to being displaced from a guild, getting into wow, quitting now, then coming back to guildwars.

But I gotta say, you're making a huge fuss over nothing.

That build you posted is not VoDway, its a balanced build.

Furthermore, the quality of play must have really dropped in the time I've been gone, because when my guild GvG'd, we'd never run a build that couldn't force a proactive split. If you can't beat a team 8v8, you need to have a way to beat them 4v4. Splitting a team counters wards hard, messes up their combat tactics, and forces them to split their resources.

And if the metagame is as bad as you say it is, most teams won't even know how to respond to your split.

If this "VoDway" build doesn't have the guns to take people down before VoD, then you can expect smooth sailing when you split their players 4v4 or 3v5

Bankai · Sep 23, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

I have not gvg'd a few months, due to being displaced from a guild, getting into wow, quitting now, then coming back to guildwars.

But I gotta say, you're making a huge fuss over nothing.

That build you posted is not VoDway, its a balanced build.

Furthermore, the quality of play must have really dropped in the time I've been gone, because when my guild GvG'd, we'd never run a build that couldn't force a proactive split. If you can't beat a team 8v8, you need to have a way to beat them 4v4. Splitting a team counters wards hard, messes up their combat tactics, and forces them to split their resources.

And if the metagame is as bad as you say it is, most teams won't even know how to respond to your split.

If this "VoDway" build doesn't have the guns to take people down before VoD, then you can expect smooth sailing when you split their players 4v4 or 3v5

There isn't enough time with only 18 minutes to gank their lord. Plus, VoDway can just turtle in the base and then blow up NPCs with Ancestor's/Splinter weapon.

Riotgear · Sep 23, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LionZero

Anyone with some brainactivity would realise that the armor penalty would apply while having aggresive refrain up, and not only while attacking under it ....

Maybe you should try reading the discussions on AR, then you'd realize the two most popular suggestions are -10 permanent, and -20 while attacking.

Not that either matters, because it's still a midliner with 86 armor, plus the WY bonus, who is going to waste their time trying to kill that?

You just got tomahawked · Sep 23, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

What is Energy Feast?

If you mean Ether Feast, that heals you for 147 if you're running 16 Inspiration. You do know that you don't gain the 3 energy that you make your target lose, right?

yeah sry I typed that post at 2 A.M. That was back in the day when you gained the energy. My bad.

Sentience · Sep 23, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Hell I even ran the old balanced prophecy build (2 war, 2 ele, 2mes, 2 monk) with boon prots. We won both games. Its very hard to run I'll give it that but its still very viable.

Must be hard to win against rank 7,000 randomway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bankai

There isn't enough time with only 18 minutes to gank their lord. Plus, VoDway can just turtle in the base and then blow up NPCs with Ancestor's/Splinter weapon.

If you can't shutdown Splinter Weapon, when the player using it needs to use it the most, then you probably deserved to lose. Most teams run 1-2 Mesmers currently, stick one on him and divert it or at least keep him from spamming it, if you are really bad have both go on him. If you are good at GW and running bloodspike then spike him out, if you are amazing at GW and running heroway, you should have already won the game.

TimeToGetIntense · Sep 23, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

I'm surprised no one has mentioned BYOB yet. That's "Bring Your Own Build" or "over 9000 assassins" for any of you not familiar. This early VoD really makes BYOB really strong, maybe too strong. I'm personally not qualified to say whether it's overpowered, but it sure does rock a lot of people.

TheOneMephisto · Sep 24, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentience

If you can't shutdown Splinter Weapon, when the player using it needs to use it the most, then you probably deserved to lose. Most teams run 1-2 Mesmers currently, stick one on him and divert it or at least keep him from spamming it, if you are really bad have both go on him. If you are good at GW and running bloodspike then spike him out, if you are amazing at GW and running heroway, you should have already won the game.

It's not as if splinter weapon is that easy to shutdown, especially since the person using it can hide in the backline and precast it. They're also going to expect it, and it's not as if a mesmer is hard to shutdown either.

EDIT: I don't think any of these -10 or -20 while attacking options are any good. The -20 doesn't help at all for spiking unless the paragon is a retard, and the -10 just leaves you with a warrior with watch yourself that sits in the midline. It's already unconditional constant IAS, hit it with something hard. I'm thinking at least -20 all the time or -30 while attacking.

erk · Sep 24, 2007, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Obviously you don't the real power of LoD so let me explain.

At 4 pips of energy regen you gain 1.3 energy/sec. LoD is 5e cost with a 5/sec recharge. So by the time its recharged you gained 6.5 energy. In essence its free!!! That's my real problem with LoD. E denial has no real affect on LoD. You can spam LoD forever and not run out of energy.

Compare it to heal party. 15 energy to 5 energy. 1 second cast to 2 second cast. 5 recharge to 2 recharge. 55 heal to 75 heal. Heal party is only viable on E prodigy (which has a lot of backlash), 2 sec cast is easily interruptible by any and everything.

LoD needs to take a huge hit.

That logic is so twisted, I guess Divine Healing is even more "free" as it takes 30sec to recharge and only costs 10 energy, thus netting you about 30 energy with a 243*8 heal if you run 12+1+1 and you can get your party bunched up in the area when you hit it!

If you Monk by just sitting there and doing nothing else until LoD has recharged, then that's very sad. On obs mode most monks are lucky to hit LoD more than once every 10 sec. because they have other things to do, that puts LoD around the same as a Recuperation spirit when you factor in the below 80% health requirement, at that rate neither really offset Tainted Flesh degen, but it all helps.

BTW. My main gripe with the meta is Tainted flesh/MM heroway teams rapidly climbing the ladder.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by erk

If you Monk by just sitting there and doing nothing else until LoD has recharged, then that's very sad. On obs mode most monks are lucky to hit LoD more than once every 10 sec. because they have other things to do, that puts LoD around the same as a Recuperation spirit when you factor in the below 80% health requirement, at that rate neither really offset Tainted Flesh degen, but it all helps.

You've missed the point entirely. You will always have enough energy by the time LoD is recharged to cast it again. You can't say that about any other spell on the monks bar because the recharge is less than the energy cost compared to regen. None of the other monk spells have the efficiency that LoD has.

I never said sit there and do nothing. My method allows you plan ahead. You can predict at your rate of casting how long your energy will last. As far as casting LoD once every 10 seconds is not due to the fact that the monk is doing other things. You will not always hit LoD if at least 2-3 targets won't be healed. Otherwised its spammed on recharge.

Next time read the rest of the post as this has already been explained.

Riotgear · Sep 24, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

You've missed the point entirely. You will always have enough energy by the time LoD is recharged to cast it again. You can't say that about any other spell on the monks bar because the recharge is less than the energy cost compared to regen.

Any 5e spell with a combined cast/recharge of 3.75 or higher can be spammed on recharge if you cast nothing else. Yes, if you prioritize any specific spell that regenerates its cost over its recharge, you can spam it on recharge. That doesn't make it any closer to "free," because by reserving 5e for your next LoD cast, you're not spending that 5e on something else. So instead of not always being able to cast LoD, you're not always able to cast Dwayna's Kiss or whatever.

What exactly is your argument?

Zabe · Sep 24, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

The problem in metagame is all about that how most of the guilds think that its good game when everyone runs same 64 skills. Thats the huge problem, another aspect ofcourse comes from the ANet side, and their lazy reacts to problems in GvG and anything else, ohh yes, PvE fixes come fast.

The most biggest problem comes from that most of people think that balanced is only build that will take skill, etc. Every build takes some sort of skill to run in its own level. GW has been build wars from ever since the release of the game, there is over 9000 skills, okay over 1000, but what ever, you can use. Over a half of them are ofcourse a kind of rubbish to use but still, that leaves a huge skillpool to use.

You can flame me or what ever, i don't really care. This is just ridicilous that people who should be skilled in the game, say that only a one build will take skill, everything else is shit.

To make observer more comfortable to watch, or anything in this game, shake the metagame somehow. Really, some people claim that balanced is coolest build to play, its a matter of taste. I really do like recall ganks etc. Balanced is the safeway build, it can counter decently nearly anything. Some people like the safe way, i like alot from splits, especially recall ganks, its just cool build to run imo.

Basicly the thing thats wrong in metagame, as I already stated. Is that fact that everyone runs the same build. There are no guilds to run anything different. Good GvG battles can be and mostly are boring as hell, nearly every skill is same, nothing happens before VoD, ofcourse, this is the ANet part, VoD is too close, push to the 25 min could be something good. But still, the biggest problem in metagame is the players itself.

LionZero · Sep 24, 2007, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Maybe you should read my post again then you would realise i don't consider the '' other option '' an option.

As for para-spiking, they actually just drop aswell as long as there is shutdown and or pressure, and imo they even die easier then the mo/w's with double stances in such builds.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 24, 2007, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Maybe you should try reading the discussions on AR, then you'd realize the two most popular suggestions are -10 permanent, and -20 while attacking.

What the hell is wrong with permanent -24?

Burton2000 · Sep 24, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Was running a modified obs spike yesterday and seemed to own all the blockway going around. <3 armour ignoring damage

Riotgear · Sep 24, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

What the hell is wrong with permanent -24?

Nothing? 12

erk · Sep 25, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

You've missed the point entirely. You will always have enough energy by the time LoD is recharged to cast it again. You can't say that about any other spell on the monks bar because the recharge is less than the energy cost compared to regen. None of the other monk spells have the efficiency that LoD has.

I never said sit there and do nothing. My method allows you plan ahead. You can predict at your rate of casting how long your energy will last. As far as casting LoD once every 10 seconds is not due to the fact that the monk is doing other things. You will not always hit LoD if at least 2-3 targets won't be healed. Otherwised its spammed on recharge.

Next time read the rest of the post as this has already been explained.

I guess you didn't think through my example of Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight which cost less energy to maintain than LoD per minute, and will heal everyone in the area, like a group of soft targets in a ward or choke point, for 210 not just 65 so you don't have to cast as often, it's not conditional on 80%, which is almost as bad as having a deep wound, so it will make sure people at 81% get topped up. When you factor in that you don't cast LoD 10 times a minute but more like 5 or 6, then DH/HD compares very well in efficiency, it can be carried on a SoD or RC Monk, and a handy way to help the infuser recover. Of course DH will not help your front line out of the area, it works best for teams that use wards or Aegis, which are many in the current blocking meta.

just rude · Sep 25, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

The problem in metagame is all about that how most of the guilds think that its good game when everyone runs same 64 skills.

Didn't need to read the rest of your post. Cause you have no idea what GW was about.

The epitome of skill in GW is facing an opponent with the exact bar you run and beating them. PERIOD. Other than that its build wars. If you cant grasp that your hopeless.

aegis, wards, 25e.
MoR 25e 60 sec recharge.
SU, -40 al vs any other type of dmg
AR: First -10 al from all para armor, making it 86, then -10 while affected.
A RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing mid liner with 96 al, LOL

any skill that costs nrg is not free, LOL, and that says alot about you.

A functional change should be made to shouts, chants, and weapon spells, that is:

Weapon enchantment
Chant enchantment, yes at first this gave me a headache, but say it a few times
Shout enchantment

The casting functionality should stay the same, its the removal that should be changed.

Unless you introduce new skills there is now way to alter the function of existing skills, i.e. the way some mes rupts work on chants, like DEnchant because you would have to be able to "tell" the skill what to remove.

Make Guardian 3/4 to deal with the onslaught, no pun, of physical damage.
LoD is actually weak, leave it.

CoF, functionality should be changed to effected foes lose 1 enchantment.

If there was a way to remove chants/ws/shouts they wouldn't be so imba.

Sorry for the lack of vulgarity, ill try better next time

Rapture · Sep 25, 2007, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by just rude

Weapon enchantment
Chant enchantment, yes at first this gave me a headache, but say it a few times
Shout enchantment

The casting functionality should stay the same, its the removal that should be changed.

cool, so not only will spam shouts be a ridiculous energy engine, they'll also be spammable cover enchants. GUD IDEA!

Zabe · Sep 25, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by just rude

Didn't need to read the rest of your post. Cause you have no idea what GW was about.

The epitome of skill in GW is facing an opponent with the exact bar you run and beating them. PERIOD. Other than that its build wars. If you cant grasp that your hopeless.

I need to only quote this part because as I read your post, the other stuff isn't for me clearly. But, if the game would be completely about measuring skill, there would be only those 64 skills. And yes, I do agree on that fact that if you put same 8 skills on every player, same equipment, and everything same. You will se e who is best running _THAT_ build. But, as there are 1000+ skills, this is a build wars, if you didn't realise it before, I can't help you.

The buildwars aspect which I already stated in this, or the other topic, should be removed from AT's ASAP. You can tell that the matches are played in next maps: a, b, c, d, e. etc. That would remove the randoming which allows you to run SBRI on burning, recall on frozen etc.

But still, as I have also stated before, we can fight anyone here in ze internets for so long as we want. Arena.Net stopped caring about PvP community what, over a year ago? Very near, if not exactly right.